situation. he leads -- romney leads obama by eight points on that. so whether it's on the economy, whether it's on leadership, he's now tied with the president. as far as leadership ability is concerned. so i think romney got everything out of that debate and more. >> he certainly did. and if you take a look at -- let me put the numbers back on the screen one more time. earlier this month before the debate, romney was behind the president, the president, 51%, romney, 43%. eight-point difference. now 49% for romney, 45% for obama, a four-point spread. that's a 12-point spread in only, what, three weeks, shall we say? and clearly the major development was his strong performs at that debate. >> you know, wolf, it just shows you that voters are still really weighing the pluses and minuses of these two candidates. what i really need to see, though, to make any judgment about how this is going to really affect the election or how it has affected voters is i need to look in the battleground states, don't you think? you need to look at the battleground state of ohio. you need to look at wisconsin.